Monday, October 3, 2016

Goth Dating Problems: Why Goth's Don't date Non-Goth's


There are huge issues of acceptance in the subculture. Lots of people like the style from a far but don’t understand or respect the people in it. In my personal experience when I’ve tried to date former friends who weren’t Goth or guys in general. It has been and continues to be a repetitive problem. People love the way I look, dress, do my hair and makeup, they love to see me out on the town, or hanging out, and pictures  from my photo shoots, but it still will not click to them that it’s the real me. When I see some people outside of the local Goth/Alt/Industrial club scene and not much is different, I receive comments like “oooh, I didn’t know you actually dressed like that, I thought that’s just what you wore for clubbing or (insert blank here).”  The list goes on and on. I thought you were like that in order  to:
-Sell your Art
-Impress other Goths
-Just for Modeling
-For Halloween
-For a Costume party
-Going to a concert or festival or event
-Rebel against your family
-On drugs
-Has serious emotional and other mental health problems and overall disturbed individual
- You were depressed
-Just a phase
-Just a thing you did as a teenager

·         Appreciation
People may leave you to your own devices as friends to a certain extent. But when it comes to dating they have something to say about your lifestyle preferences. Suddenly they want you to stop doing all of the things you love that makes you who you truly are.
“I don’t like girls that wear makeup, I noticed you wear a lot of it, If/when we start dating can you stop wearing makeup or just not wear any around me?”
“ Can’t you just wear some color once”
·         Manipulation
People like to try and tell you that by changing other aspects of yourself which does nothing to hurt anyone is for your own good. As if they are the only ones who will ever be with someone like you, you’re lucky to have them, and if you don’t do what they say you’ll lose them. And will in the end just hurt yourself more in the long run. It’s a lot of narcissism that goes into this mentality and it happens all to often. Things may start off well, but slowly but surely over a period of weeks, months, or even years you’ll start to pick up on red flags here and there. Then as time passes by you’ll begin to notice a huge difference and you’ll be in too deep and it may be too late to turn back if you are put into a position of little to no power. By isolating you from you friends and family, moving you into the middle of no where, discouraging you from doing the things you love even on your own time, etc. Manipulation comes in all shapes and forms. It’s not always recognizable on the first date or in the first few years of dating. They’ll say things like,

-“ If you really love me, you’ll wear something colorful and push through feeling uncomfortable for me.”
-“ Can you please wear white for our wedding day? It’ll make me so happy”
- “ Can you take out your piercings to meet my friends and family?”
-“ Can you cover or remove your tattoos for me? I think you’d look so much prettier without them, you don’t need them to be beautiful for me.”
-“ I don’t like Goth Clothing, can you stop wearing them? I’d be more than happy to take you shopping for something pink and fluffy.”

They may do passive aggressive things like ever so obviously hint at tattoo removal places, send you articles about nerve damage from piercings, crappy internet articles expressing “concern” for loved ones who express themselves in a dark or alternative ways, hide your clothing and replace them with colorful things, etc. 

·         Protection
People assume Goths and Alternative people are freaks and into kinky things. They say and do all sorts of things that make us role our eyes. I personally do not want to have to try and explain a whole entire subculture and lifestyle to someone out side of the scene.  All about do’s and dont's and rights and wrongs of the whole thing. When strangers ask me on the street, I can explain certain things to them briefly, but ultimately I end up referring them to my blog and Youtube channel where I have already answered some of those same questions. And even at times referring them to other bloggers and writers who explain them a lot better than I ever could. That’s a huge chunk of my life that I’d have to explain to someone I’m dating all the time on top of everyone else. So it saves me a lot of time and energy by not.

Also because most of my experiences in this area happen to be negative, I have the right to be suspicious about some people in different ways. What if he lost a bet, what if that person is just trying to piss off their ex or their parents, or thinks I’m going to fulfill some sort of kinky fetish for them, or whatever. No Thank you.
·         Misconceptions about the Subculture
-There are all kinds of misconceptions and assumptions about people in the subculture
-Goth is a not a religion
-You don’t have to be Atheist or Pagan
-You don’t have to dress or look the part at all
-Goth is an umbrella turn for a wide range of music, art, literature, fashion styles, etc
-Depression is a medical problem that all people of all walks of life face
-No I’m not wearing all black waiting for some fuck boy to “turn me on to color”
-I don’t like negative attention no one does, it’s apart of the territory and everyone on some level has to deal with it regardless of who they are or what they wear.

·         Fetishizing of Alternative people
-Vampirism is an actual religion and some may choose to participate in it. Not all Goths or Alternative people are apart of this.
-Yes some people are kinky but that doesn’t mean they want to be with you.
-Goths and Alternative people are not boxes to check off in terms of types of people you’ve slept with. No one is.
·         Race
In my personal experience I feel that it’s more socially accectable to be Goth/Alt and white it is to be a person of color. Expecially within the African-American community. People assume you are self hating and trying to be white because you look different and like different music and you surround yourself with like minded people of all races and and cultures. A lot of people don’t believe me when I say I don’t like rap, hip hop, or R&B music. I don’t like talking with a lot of slang, I don’t care much for name brands such as Echo Red, Tommy Hillfiger, Apple Bottom, etc. I don’t fit into the stereotypes of what people expect a Black women in America to look like, act like, dress like, etc. I’m often seen as a “poser”, a “fake”, or something else entirely. People assume I’m from another country or I grew up in a predominantly white neighborhood, that I’m lost of don’t have a sense of identity on my own or whatever. 

·         Micro-Aggressions and Teasing
People, even loved ones in general tend to lightly poke fun at each other and that’s normal. But there comes a certain point when people should realize there are certain lines that shouldn’t be crossed and certain things just aren’t funny. They are ignorant and hurtful and even when they see that it bothers you they continue to do it. The Halloween jokes, the  Goth jokes, the wise cracks about wearing all black, and so much more. Sometimes your partner can cross that line and gone unchecked it’ll continue to grow more and more out of hand. And when you do check them of behavior that’s not okay it leads to victim blaming and bashing and can make things worst. Sometimes your partner will be fine but their friends or family may say or do something harmful and your partner may fail to check it and tell you to “relax” , “it’s no big deal, “ “it’s just a joke…” And that can lead to further tension in your relationship.

I have never had a serious relationship with someone who wasn’t Goth or Alternative. I’ve been in a relationship for almost 3 years now. These are the reason why some people may choose not to date outside of the scene. And these are my experiences. Yes, it is completely possible to find someone outside of the subculture who is kind and an overall good partner to be with and you can be happy together. I am not saying it’s not possible or that if you find someone you like outside of the scene you shouldn’t give it a chance. Just that when someone says that don’t date non-Goths or non-Alternative people. Please keep these points in mind about the experiences that person has had to deal with over time. They may not be an elitist, or discriminating against people based on subculture or lack there of. They may just be more protective of themselves, well-being, and energy and may not want to deal with situations and circumstances dealt with before.


  1. This is awesome. Anyone who wants to be with someone should want to be with them for who they are.

    1. Thanks for reading, glad you enjoyed it so much. Please share.

  2. I really enjoyed reading this post. I share some of your experiences in dating. I've had relationship with people who are goths, rockers, alternatives and non alts. During this experience I would never immediately discount someone for not being an alternative. I prefer going out with alternatives as it's I feel as though I can be myself and i tend have more in common with them. Besides, I find alt males make the best partners they're more loving, affectionate and are just best. This is my just my experience and you can't help who you'll fall in love.

    I really enjoyed reading your post and experiences in regards of dating. Also interesting hearing it from a black Goths perspective.

    1. Thanks Sarah, I'm glad you can relate and enjoyed reading it.

  3. Dear Rain, loved your opinion.
    You can add a thing that can be seen ever worst than being black and goth: being bisexual/gay (the subculture have a long story of tolerance, but it become very hard to find a kind parthner, expecially for gays) or transsexual. I'm in the last category: a goth transsexual. Outside the subculture, I'm a sort of forbidden fruit (trans AND latex AND corsets? YES for some) for some - but not a true person -, devil incarnated for others (expecially religious kind of people).
    I still dream to find a kindred spirit who accept my peculiarity in addition to the required love for our music and lifestyle, for the outsiders in the end has come and left me in tears, choosing their more common way of life over me.
    Love, Alyss.

    1. Hi Alyss, I tried to keep this post based on my experience entirely and why I can relate to people who don't date outside of the subculture and the reasons why. It never occurred to me that being lgbtq may and additional concern on top of everything else. The Goth/Alt scene is pretty open minded and welcoming. I'm sorry you have to deal with that sort of thing. I hope you find someone special who's worth your time.

  4. How can I follow your blogs? I used to dress Goth a lot I felt like in high school the Goth kids were nicer than any other group. Being in a wheelchair I find it hard to find a place to fit in,but it didn't happen like that with my Goth friends. I also met my best friend Vermina in high school. She was a goth and an inspiration for me. I learned to stop trying to fit in and enjoy being me!

    1. There's a follow button to the left of the page. Glad you enjoyed this post so much and can relate.

  5. Very good article. Things get tougher as you get older, too!

  6. Nice article :)
    I like the goth style, and I would like to date a goth girl, specially to know more about this culture. Of course, I would respect her likings and dressing style and I would not try to change her.
    So not all non-goths are like the ones you met :p

  7. I married my goth girl and I'm a full out jock...damn i got lucky. Wouldn't tell her to stop rocking what she loves. 14 years and counting! Keep doing what makes you , you.

  8. I'm still looking for my goth girl in my life. It's hard being a black guy and goth, but I won't give up. Did it before and regretted it. Won't ever again.

  9. I was able to relate to this in someways, I more or less hide that I love this around most family and friends because of being talked about, but it's very relateable and I loved reading this!

  10. This is very true I have had similar experiences and I am very hesitant about anyone new now.

  11. But goths do date non goths...

  12. It's not nessesarily a goth/alt thing, there's just some people in the world who are more accepting/liberal/open minded than others, and it's important to surround yourself with such people (gpth or not) and weed out the bigots,also not to date with people who don't love YOU, but an ideal of you they created in their own heads. One of the better things about being a "freak" or "weirdo" I find is a lot of those people steer well clear of you instantly anyways :)

  13. I'm in a 11+ yr relationship with someone out of the scene but I am not always in my goth garb. I can get lazy and not bother with makeup and I've grown out of my goth clothes and fat ppl goth clothes are expensive. I feel goth at heart but can't/don't always show it on the outside. He prefers my natural face but thinks my makeup I wear is pretty on me. He is a very accepting guy and I love him for that. Reading this made me feel I have someone special who takes me for who I am and loves me unconditionally.

  14. I'm in a 11+ yr relationship with someone out of the scene but I am not always in my goth garb. I can get lazy and not bother with makeup and I've grown out of my goth clothes and fat ppl goth clothes are expensive. I feel goth at heart but can't/don't always show it on the outside. He prefers my natural face but thinks my makeup I wear is pretty on me. He is a very accepting guy and I love him for that. Reading this made me feel I have someone special who takes me for who I am and loves me unconditionally.

  15. Hi I'm a Norm and I'm white, I do so like the dark way of life, but the closest I get to Gothness is I like to wear a lot of black ;) MY art is a bit on the dark side, I write poetry and everyone tells me it's somewhat bleak. But I am also a very happy person I digress, I'd just like to say after reading the above, not only are you extremely attractive in both your looks and your attire, you write well and come across as being very intelligent. I hope one day you find someone and they accept you for who you are and make you happy, be they Norm or Goth. I know sadly we live in a bigoted society but everybody deserves to be happy. Oh except the scum bags of life like racists, serial killers, fascists etc etc they can all go to Hell. Sorry there I go digressing again.